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诺曼•福斯特的专访:“建筑是价值观的体现”第1张图片
Apple Campus 2 / Foster + Partners. Image © City of Cupertino

来自柏林的《欧洲人周报》的编辑Max Tholl跟我们分享了他对建筑师诺曼·福斯特进行的采访,采访主要围绕“当今社会中建筑师担任的角色”这一话题展开。


The European:福斯特爵士,建筑师们设计的建筑作品可能在未来的几十年甚至上百年内都对这个城市有深远的影响。而为未知的未来设计建筑到底面临着怎样的困难?


Foster:建筑的灵活性是最重要的考虑因素。我们在设计的时候要始终有这样一个意识,那就是情况随时都会改变——包括建筑的环境,建筑的使用功能,并且需要结合我们还不能预测的新技术。
      举个例子,二十世纪七十年代我们设计的Willis Faber保险公司总部能够很好地适应几年以后办公工具由打字机到文字处理软件的转变。这是因为我们为公司所有的办公空间都安装了可以活动的地板,这在当时是革命性的,其他公司,这种功能只限在计算机房。
      Willis Faber保险公司的其他竞争者只能通过重新安装建造新的设备来适应这一新的科技。同样,我们设计的汇丰银行同样使用了这种灵活性——我们突破性地把中央核心转移到楼层的开放、灵活的边缘处,这意味着汇丰银行拥有一个足够大而又完整的交易大厅——这在建筑设计之前是没有预期到的。而其他银行则无法在自己的总部开设交易大厅,他们也只有重建他们的总部来适应数字革命的到来。


Berlin-based editor Max Tholl of The European Magazine has shared with us his interview with Norman Foster on the role of architecture in today’s society.

The European: Lord Foster, architects design buildings that will characterize cities for decades or even centuries to come. How difficult is it to design buildings for an unknown future?

Foster: Flexibility is a key consideration. We design with an awareness that circumstances will change – that a building’s context will evolve; it may be used in different ways and will need to incorporate new technologies that we cannot yet predict.
For example, our headquarters for the insurance brokers Willis Faber in the 1970s was able to accommodate the shift from typewriters to word processors just a few years later. This was made possible by the provision of a raised access floor – this was revolutionary at the time because such features were confined to computer rooms.

Willis Faber’s competitors could only accommodate this new technology by building new facilities. Our Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank was similarly radical for its flexibility – we relegated the normal central core to the edges of open, flexible floors. This meant that the Bank was able to introduce a large trading floor quite easily and without disruption – something that could never have been anticipated when the building was designed. The Bank’s competitors would never have been able to accommodate a trading floor in their headquarters towers. Similarly, other banks had to create new buildings to respond to the digital revolution.

诺曼•福斯特的专访:“建筑是价值观的体现”第2张图片
AD Classics: Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank / Foster + Partners. Image © Flickr CC User WiNG1990


The European:您设计的大部分建筑已经成为了一个城市的地标性建筑,并且在将来很长一段时间都代表着其所在城市的象征。这些建筑像新世贸中心2号楼、伦敦的“小黄瓜”将会给我们的文明带来什么样的影响?


Foster:我希望这些建筑能够包容和适应未来的变化,尽管这些变化我们现在只能对此做出猜想。我们的工作希望通过对过去的研究,提出对未来的参考——目前,我们已经充分了解环境问题将会对建筑产生的影响。

The European:您曾经对很多历史遗迹进行过改造——尤其是柏林的德国国会大厦和新世贸大厦2号楼。请问您对类似这样的改造工程有什么看法?


Foster:对于这样的改造工程我个人的方法就是尊重历史,并且在一定程度上从中获得灵感。例如在改造德国国会大厦时,我们充分地尊重历史的痕迹——无论是市民故意破坏的痕迹还是战争留下的创伤——这些都应该为子孙后代保留好。改造的痕迹是显眼的,建筑物被修护或重建的地方都清晰地展现在人们眼前。新世贸大厦2号楼的设计概念仍旧是在过去的记忆和现在的重生中取平衡点。大楼位于了纪念公园东北角的关键位置,其形象充分反映了这一角色的地标性特征。同时作为世贸中心的一部分,它具有激发曼哈顿市中心活力的功能。建筑周围街道的店铺布局以及和世贸中心交通枢纽的连接使曼哈顿这个区域区充满活力,成为周围相邻区域的代表。

The European:每座城市都有它独有的记忆,而城市中的建筑往往会勾起人们对某一特定事件的回忆。您认为建筑也是一种相互沟通交流的方式吗?


Foster: 建筑是和过去有联系的,然而我们通常关注的并不是历史遗迹,而是历史建筑的复兴,赋予它们新的功能,使它们能够再次被使用。建筑不仅能唤起人们的记忆,而且是一个地区价值观和区域感的体现。比如我们设计的北京机场,作为中国代表性的入关门户,它的造型以及柱和顶的颜色都加入中国元素,如中国红和金黄色,尽管这是一个极尽现代的设计。


The European: Most of the buildings that you have designed have become absolute landmarks and will continue to characterize their respective cities for a very long time. What impression will buildings like Tower 2 of the new WTC or the Gherkin in London leave behind of our civilization?
Foster: I hope that these buildings will endure and respond to changes which we can now only imagine. Our work might provide some references from the past for future generations – we have yet to see a complete understanding of the impact of environmental issues on architecture.

The European: You have redesigned buildings with a lot of historical legacy/baggage – notably the Reichstag here in Berlin and now Tower 2 of the WTC. Do you think a lot about this when working on such buildings?
Foster: I think you could characterize my approach as deeply respectful of history and also in part inspired by it. Throughout our rebuilding of the Reichstag we respected the imprints of the past – whether civic vandalism or the graffiti of war – and felt that it should be preserved for future generations. Junctions between old and new were articulated, and where the existing fabric had been repaired it was clearly expressed. The concept for Tower 2 of the World Trade Center is equally driven by this balance between memory and rebirth. The building occupies a pivotal position at northeast corner of Memorial Park, and its profile reflects this role as a symbolic marker. The tower also has a function, as part of the renewal of the World Trade Center, in regenerating this part of downtown Manhattan. Its street level retail and connections to the WTC transit hub will help to reinvigorate the area with a vitality that is typical of a Manhattan neighborhood.

The European: Do you think that architecture is also a means of communication? Cities are full of memorials and other buildings that aim to remind people about certain events.
Foster: Architecture is a connection with the past. However, our concern is not for relics but for the revitalization of historic buildings, repurposing them for a new generation. Architecture can communicate memory, but it can also communicate values and a sense of place. Our airport in Beijing, for example, is designed as a symbolic gateway to China – its form and use of color in the columns and roof, which flow from imperial red to golden yellow, deliberately evoke traditional Chinese symbols even though the design is state-of-the-art.

诺曼•福斯特的专访:“建筑是价值观的体现”第3张图片
Beijing Airport / Foster + Partners. Image Courtesy of Foster + Partners


The European:目前建筑行业存在着一个普遍的问题,那就是很多出色的设计单位专注于商业建筑或公共建筑,而住宅建筑——特别是在贫困地区或者城市边缘地带——被严重忽略了。这样的现状是否值得我们反省?正如Rem Koolhaa在他的文章《Junk Space》中要求的那样,建筑应该服务于人类,而并不是商业。


Foster:情况并非如此——我非常希望能有机会为贫民区设计建造大量的住宅项目。6年前,我们接手过一个在孟买的项目,该项目的主要目的是提高世界上最大的贫民区达拉维的居民居住水平、公共卫生设施条件和公共空间建设。目前他们的公共卫生条件相当落后,平均每1400人拥有一个公共厕所,另外他们缺少公共活动空间,孩子们只能在附近的公墓或者铁路轨道上玩耍。我们的设计团队花了大量的时间和精力研究了当地社区居民对空间的使用方式,发现这些居民重新利用了孟买80%的费空间。我们据此制订了一个十分全面的计划去提升当地居民的生活质量,在不打破他们原有生活和工作空间的平衡的基础上,巧妙地加入新的公共基础设施。然而令人沮丧的是我们并没有机会实现我们的蓝图,这原本是一个对潜在的未来项目十分有借鉴意义的工程。值得注意的是,这个项目提出了一个对贫民区的新的改造方式,在尽量保持原社区结构的基础上,提升公共设施水平。这是对传统的方式的彻底否定,事实上也证明那种彻底打破原有社会结构,完全重建的传统方式已经不适用了。

The European:Koolhaas还表示了自己对很多建筑设计师痴迷大体量建筑的不满。请问您赞同他的观点吗?到底人们对大体量空间的执着源自于哪里?


Foster:建筑规模影响着设计中众多的决定,比如材料的选择,建筑的造型和位置等等。对于很多项目来说,一个大而整体的结构往往比一系列分散的小建筑更加能够满足材料和造型的需要,在造价和环境问题上也有自己的优势。大体量的建筑并不是非人类的体现,我们始终以人类适宜的尺度来表达我们的设计。举个例子来说,我们在2008年完工的北京机场,目前是世界上最大最先进的国际机场,旅客们对它的评价是友好而便利的。北京机场整个航站楼处于一个巨大而整体的顶棚的覆盖下,对于在航站楼内的旅客们来说像是一个人造的天空。北京机场是我们之前设计的香港机场的进化版。香港机场的航站楼同样是一个整体,相反,英国伦敦的希斯罗机场是由5个被道路和停车场分割开来的小型机场终端组成。然而却是香港机场7年来被来自160多个国家的1300万乘客评选为最喜欢的机场。
      再比如说,新的苹果总部大楼,位于惠普公司原址。原来惠普总部都是被停车场和柏油路分隔开的建筑群,如今的苹果总部是一个单体建筑,周围是一个40公顷的公园,有5千米长的游步道和超过7000棵树。除了周围的绿地可以提高员工的工作生活质量之外,单体建筑不仅能够减少能耗,而且能够增进公司内部各个不同部门之间的交流。
      当然,大体量的建筑总是更受媒体的关注,当一栋建筑是最大的,一座桥是最长的,或者一座塔是最高的,它们必然会吸引更多的目光。但是对于每一个设计这种大型项目的建筑师,他们也有很多同样值得称赞的地方,但是却并没有值得出版的作品。


The European: Most prominent architects concentrate on commercial buildings or infrastructure, while housing – especially in poorer regions or city parts – is widely neglected. Should architecture refocus on its duty to serve the people instead of business – as Rem Koolhaas demands in his essay “Junk Space”?
Foster: This is not the case – I would welcome an opportunity to address the mass housing issues of slums. Six years ago, we began a project in Mumbai which aimed to raise the quality of housing, sanitation, and public space in Dharavi, one of the world’s largest slums. Current standards of sanitation are low, with just one toilet per 1,400 people, and the lack of open space means that the only places for children to play are in cemeteries and on the railway tracks. Our team spent time studying the way that the space was used and engaged with the local community – the residents of Dharavi recycle 80 percent of Mumbai’s waste. We developed a comprehensive plan to improve the quality of life for all living there, which was based around the existing balance between spaces for living and working, yet introduced new public facilities and infrastructure. While we sadly have not had the opportunity to implement our master plan, this work has been a valuable reference for potential future projects. Significantly, it pointed the way to solutions in which the community would be respected and the quality of amenities transformed. This is a radical alternative to the traditional approach of bulldozing, uprooting the social structure, and starting afresh – a policy which has so far failed.

The European: Koolhaas also complains a lot about architecture’s obsession with “bigness”. Do you agree with him? Where does this human fascination for bigness stem from?
Foster: Scale, along with many other design decisions, such as the choice of materials, form, and location, is a response to a set of needs – and for some projects, one large, compact structure is often the best response to those needs rather than a proliferation of smaller buildings. There can also be cost and environmental efficiencies with a larger, single enclosure. Big need not mean inhuman – everything we design is legible at a human scale. Take, for example, Beijing Airport, which we completed in 2008. It is the world’s largest, most technically advanced airport, yet it has a reputation for being friendly and easy to use. The terminal is planned under a single unifying roof canopy, akin in its scale to an artificial sky. Beijing has evolved from our Hong Kong airport, which was similarly a single terminal under one roof compared with Heathrow, for example, which has five separate terminals divided by roads and car parks. For seven separate years, Hong Kong has been voted the airline travelers’ best airport by 13 million passengers from 160 countries.
Similarly, the site of our Apple project was originally the Hewlett Packard campus, which was full of separate buildings interspersed by parking lots and tarmac. The creation of one single building for Apple has enabled the creation of a 40-hectare park with five kilometers of trails and more than 7,000 trees. Aside from the quality of life offered by this green playground, the single building consumes less energy and provides better internal communication between the separate disciplines which make up Apple.
However, there is a media fascination for “bigness” in any field. When a building is the largest, a bridge the longest, or a tower the highest, it inevitably attracts attention, but for every one of these mega-projects, we produce infinitely more equally deserving but less publicized projects.

诺曼•福斯特的专访:“建筑是价值观的体现”第4张图片
Apple Campus 2 / Foster + Partners. Image © City of Cupertino


The European:几十年以前,您的导师Richard Buckminster Fuller曾提出“少费多用”的绿色建筑概念,并在1938年出版的《通向月球的9个环节》中加以系统地阐述。虽然这在当时只是一个理论,但是由于我们的资源是有限的,这个概念会在不久的将来展现其必要性。对此您怎么看?


Foster:“少费多用”——让建筑体更轻,让材料的使用更经济,让能源消耗更少——对于如今的现状,没有比这更有实际意义的了。Bucky提出的可持续性设计的原则已然成为如今建筑设计的重点。他是一个神奇的人,他在其他领域做出的预测如今也已经实现了,例如他在世的时候曾预测,将来的手机会发展成拥有媲美一屋子计算机的能力。

The European:玻璃应该是您设计中的重要元素。德国玻璃体建筑先驱Paul Scheerbart曾发表过一个著名的言论:“玻璃是私密性的敌人。”您觉得呢?


Foster:玻璃只是我们所能运用的众多材料中的其中一种,它可以反射或者折射光线,但不一定是透明的。但总的来说,玻璃让原本孤立、私密的建筑有了和外界沟通交流的可能。就拿我们之前讨论过的德国国会大厦来说,显然整个设计的主题就是“公开、透明”,无论从字面上还是从象征意义上——玻璃和金属组合的透明穹顶就是民主政治的具体体现。国会大厦的大部分室内空间都是对外可见的。当公众人物或者政客们在里面会面和交谈时,他们可以看见外面的一切,同时也被外面的民众监督着。


The European: Decades ago, your mentor Richard Buckminster Fuller propagated the concept of “ephemeralization” – the ability to do more and more with less and less. Back then, it was just theoretical reasoning, but because of finite resources it will become a necessity in the near future. Do you agree?
Foster: Never has the exhortation to “do more with less” – to make an enclosure lighter, to use materials more economically, to consume less energy – been more relevant. The principles of sustainable design, which Bucky really pioneered, are completely central to architecture today. His predictions in many fields have already been realized. For example: a hand-held phone today has the processing power of a room full of computers when Bucky was alive.

European: Glass seems to play a very important role in your designs. German glass-architecture pioneer Paul Scheerbart famously said: “Glass is the enemy of secrecy”.
Foster: Glass is just one of a vast palette of materials at our disposal, and it can transmit light without being see-through. However, it has allowed us to open up previously very insular buildings to the outside world. For example, in early discussions about the transformation of the Reichstag, the theme that emerged most clearly was that it should be publicly accessible and “transparent”, both literally and symbolically – the resulting cupola of metal and glass is a very tangible expression of democracy. The main chamber of parliament is visible for all to see. Public and politicians meet and interact; they can see and be seen.

诺曼•福斯特的专访:“建筑是价值观的体现”第5张图片
SkyCycle. Image Courtesy of Foster + Partners


The European:建筑可以说是社会的视觉再现吗?


Foster:建筑是价值观的体现——建筑的方式反映了我们生活的方式。这就是地域传统和城市历史吸引人的地方,每一个地区都有他们自己的特色。很多时候我们需要从研究过去获得对未来的灵感。更可贵的是,建筑是一个城市价值的体现。

The European: 您认为那种突然涌现的大城市像中国的很多新城,能够在建设中拥有自己的城市特色吗?


Foster:中国发展的脚步是史无前例的——世界前六的大都市都位于环太平洋地区。每个城市的建设模式都应该是不同的——并没有一个通用方式。但是现在出现了几个常见的问题,城市之间相互学习借鉴——如今得出最重要的经验教训之一就是城市密度是打造低能耗、通达又舒适的城市的阻碍。有一种说法说城市人口密度越大,它的生活质量越低,其实不尽然。例如澳门和摩纳哥,同样是人口密度最高的城市之一,他们经济结构却朝着两个极端发展。事实上,一个城市是否临近一个公园或者绿地才是最主要因素。英国伦敦的梅菲尔区和贝尔格莱维亚区临近伦敦海德公园,同样曼哈顿的上东区和西部地区临近纽约中央公园,而布鲁克林区最令人满意的部分是靠近展望公园的区域。有意思的是,对香港市民来说,我们对西九龙文化区的总体规划中最吸引他们的是一个全新的滨水公园。

The European:我们还需要新城市吗?


Foster:城市是为了满足人类需求而出现的。如今我们需要面对并处理世界人口激增和城市化进程加快的挑战。但是,没有一个单一的方式能够适应全球不同的情况。有某些情况下,我们还需要新城市的出现,有时候,我们则只需要把注意力放在发展已有的城市上。每个城市都有自己的问题,没有哪两个是相同的。

The European: Is architecture the visual representation of society?
Foster: Architecture is an expression of values – the way we build is a reflection of the way we live. This is why vernacular traditions and the historical layers of a city are so fascinating, as every era produces its own vocabulary. Sometimes we have to explore the past to find inspiration for the future. At its most noble, architecture is the embodiment of our civic values.

The European: Do you think that pop-up megacities like the ones popping up in China can establish themselves as a model for building cities in the future?
Foster: The pace of growth in China has indeed been unprecedented – the top six of the world’s megacities are on the Pacific Rim. The model for every city must be different – there is no one-size-fits-all approach to urban development. However, there are common problems, and cities can learn from one another – one of the most important lessons, in terms of reducing energy and creating a walkable, enjoyable city, is density. There is a myth that higher urban densities lead to something poorer – literally and also in terms of quality of life. Macao and Monaco, for example, are among the densest communities on earth, yet their roots lie at opposite ends of the economic spectrum. Proximity to a park or garden square is a major factor. Mayfair and Belgravia in London, for instance, pair with Hyde Park, just as the Upper East and West Sides of Manhattan relate to Central Park, and the most desirable parts of Brooklyn are on the borders of Prospect Park. It is interesting that the most popular aspect of our master plan for the West Kowloon Cultural District with the people of Hong Kong is the major new waterfront park.

The European: Do we even need new cities?
Foster: The city is a response to human needs. There is a need to tackle the challenges we face as the world’s populations proliferate and become increasingly urbanized. However, there is no single solution with global applicability. In some cases, there may be a need for a new city – in others, the focus will be on the densification or development of an existing city. No two scenarios are the same.

诺曼•福斯特的专访:“建筑是价值观的体现”第6张图片
Vieux Port Pavilion / Foster + Partners. Image © Nigel Young / Foster + Partners


The European: 如今亚洲和中东地区是城市扩张的主要地区。西方世界是否已经失去了在城市发展领域的先驱地位了?


Foster:这么说就是忽略了西方建筑设计师、工程师、咨询顾问等在亚洲、中东那些先锋城市发展过程中所扮演的重要角色,他们经常和当地的单位合作,为他们的城市发展做出自己的贡献。比如世界上首个实验性的零碳排放、零浪费的沙漠城市马斯达尔,正是我们设计的总体规划,也是我们建造的第一栋建筑。

The European:20世纪,很多建筑师——尤其柯布西耶——尝试着去改变当时的社会结构和运作方式。然而他们最后失败了,在很多地方到今天我们仍然能感觉到当时的影响。您认为建筑是否应该试图去影响社会运作方式?


Foster:建筑、城市基础设施,或者是把两者结合起来的城市粘合剂,他们都不是自我设计的,而是由忽略了这些个体本质的人设计的。有些设计理念是成功的,例如把他们相互联系在一起,为人们所接受和包容——然而有些则是失败的。就像Winston Churchill说的:“我们塑造了建筑,同时,建筑也在塑造我们。”柯布西耶同样不可例外。他的一些想法,或者通过他人的诠释是不成功的,当然有一些是成功的。

The European: Asia and the Middle East are leading this controlled urban-sprawl trend. Has the West lost its pioneering role in the realm of city development?
Foster: To say so would be to discount the important role that Western architects, engineers, and consultants, working with local collaborators, are playing in the development of these pioneering cities in the Asia and the Middle East. Masdar, for example, is the world’s first experiment to create a zero carbon, zero waste desert city – and we designed the master plan as well as the first buildings.

The European: In the 20th century, many architects – notably Le Corbusier – tried to change the way society is organized and works. In many places, the consequences of their failures are still being felt today. Do you think that architecture should seek to influence the ways society works?
Foster: Buildings and the infrastructure, or urban glue, that binds them together do not design themselves – they are designed by people regardless of how the individuals are titled. Some of their conceptions for living together have proved successful, been adapted and endured – others have not. As Winston Churchill said, “We shape our buildings and they shape us.” Le Corbusier is no exception. Some of his visions and their interpretations by others were not successful – others were.

出处:本文译自www.archdaily.com/,转载请注明出处。
编辑: 范偲慧,庆新
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